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Ideas For A Better Ranked PVP System

AuthorMessage
Captain
Jun 10, 2013
729
This is the first ranked PVP season I have had 2 max level pirates and I wanted to post my thoughts on how Pirate 101's ranked PVP system could be improved.

Before I go any further I will make a note as of right now I only have those 2 pirates(a musketeer and a privateer) so I cannot answer for the other 3 classes.

One thing I find unrealistic is when a Swashbuckler dodges 5 hits in a row. This doesn't happen all the time, and I understand Swashbuckler's have high dodge but dodging 5 hits in a row seems unrealistic. Why is there the Quick Adjust and Second Chance talents when a Swashbuckler can dodge 5 hits in a row. I equally find annoying when a Buccaneer does a Reckless Frenzy, doesn't critical more than once, but gets in 5 or more regular hits. Why does the Dodgy talent exist if a Buccaneer can get 5 regular hits in a row. And finally let me talk about fighting Witchdoctors, I find it sad when I fight a Witchdoctor and they do 3 or more regular hits in a row and fizzle all 3 times, why even have the Mojo Echo talent if you fizzle more often than not. You may notice up to this point I haven't talked about the classes of my max level pirates, in my observations when I face my own class as a musketeer the hits and misses seem equal, it's only when I face another class this seems to change. When a face my own class as a privateer there isn't much attacking at all as we are bombing back and forth.

On another note, I feel the current ranked PVP system values losses more than wins, my musketeer currently has equal wins and losses, 4 each, and is a contender. I feel she should at least be a Brawler under the current system as she has 3 or more wins.

I feel the solution to these problems is Ki introducing a watch system that records all matches, changing the ranked PVP system so only wins count towards ranks, and adding a challenge button. I will go into detail below:

Watch System: If Ki added a watch system that recorded matches Ki could watch matches after they happened this would be good to help combat boosting, cheat engine use, and to make combat better overall.

Only Wins Counting Towards Ranks: I think this would be good as if a person kept losing it would encourage them to keep trying instead of making them feel inferior. This may be why not many people do ranked PVP, thus boosting being easily done. I propose a system where once you get a certain number of wins you get the next rank regardless of how many losses you have, something like: Contender - 1 win, Brawler - 5 wins, Warrior - 10 wins, Gladiator - 15 wins, Veteran - 20 wins, Hero - 25 wins, Paragon - 30 wins, Champion - 40 wins. Under this system people would still be putting in the same number of PVP hours in order to get the Champion rank.

Challenge Button: I think Ki should add a challenge button(with a 12 hour cooldown to avoid spamming). In the event of excessive hits or misses or cheat engine use, Ki could use recordings of the match to add a win to your wins if you earned it.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
479
Although the Pirate101 population is smaller than Wizard101, there are still a lot of players out there. KI only has a staff of about 200 employees (all with full time jobs). They clearly don't have the bandwidth to review tons of videos looking for violations (especially since we already know that system would be abused with false reports).

YouTube (who does have dedicated personnel and probably one of the better companies doing what you are asking) currently has a review problem on their hands.

Adding more KI employees to do this, will only take more away from development, since KI is unlikely to increase the price zones or membership.

My suggestion -- Report the infraction in-game, record the videos yourself on social media, then highlight the infractions in question on the video (don't leave a 30 min video running), then get the attention of KI staff to review (while they have player data from the in-game report).

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
RRRRZZZZ419 on Mar 30, 2018 wrote:
This is the first ranked PVP season I have had 2 max level pirates and I wanted to post my thoughts on how Pirate 101's ranked PVP system could be improved.

Before I go any further I will make a note as of right now I only have those 2 pirates(a musketeer and a privateer) so I cannot answer for the other 3 classes.

One thing I find unrealistic is when a Swashbuckler dodges 5 hits in a row. This doesn't happen all the time, and I understand Swashbuckler's have high dodge but dodging 5 hits in a row seems unrealistic. Why is there the Quick Adjust and Second Chance talents when a Swashbuckler can dodge 5 hits in a row. I equally find annoying when a Buccaneer does a Reckless Frenzy, doesn't critical more than once, but gets in 5 or more regular hits. Why does the Dodgy talent exist if a Buccaneer can get 5 regular hits in a row. And finally let me talk about fighting Witchdoctors, I find it sad when I fight a Witchdoctor and they do 3 or more regular hits in a row and fizzle all 3 times, why even have the Mojo Echo talent if you fizzle more often than not. You may notice up to this point I haven't talked about the classes of my max level pirates, in my observations when I face my own class as a musketeer the hits and misses seem equal, it's only when I face another class this seems to change. When a face my own class as a privateer there isn't much attacking at all as we are bombing back and forth.

On another note, I feel the current ranked PVP system values losses more than wins, my musketeer currently has equal wins and losses, 4 each, and is a contender. I feel she should at least be a Brawler under the current system as she has 3 or more wins.

I feel the solution to these problems is Ki introducing a watch system that records all matches, changing the ranked PVP system so only wins count towards ranks, and adding a challenge button. I will go into detail below:

Watch System: If Ki added a watch system that recorded matches Ki could watch matches after they happened this would be good to help combat boosting, cheat engine use, and to make combat better overall.

Only Wins Counting Towards Ranks: I think this would be good as if a person kept losing it would encourage them to keep trying instead of making them feel inferior. This may be why not many people do ranked PVP, thus boosting being easily done. I propose a system where once you get a certain number of wins you get the next rank regardless of how many losses you have, something like: Contender - 1 win, Brawler - 5 wins, Warrior - 10 wins, Gladiator - 15 wins, Veteran - 20 wins, Hero - 25 wins, Paragon - 30 wins, Champion - 40 wins. Under this system people would still be putting in the same number of PVP hours in order to get the Champion rank.

Challenge Button: I think Ki should add a challenge button(with a 12 hour cooldown to avoid spamming). In the event of excessive hits or misses or cheat engine use, Ki could use recordings of the match to add a win to your wins if you earned it.
If you're a swashbuckler with a dodge over 200 then dodging 5 hits in a row happens. Buccaneers can get in hits on a dodgy swashbuckler by stunning. ( Also Glancing Blow is not dodge-able. ) Stacking charges to reduce dodge helps in getting hits in.
Watch System: Oh yes, let's give those lazy people at KI more things to do with their time! (sarcastic mode here.)
Losing a match should count against rising in ranks, it's the same in every sport. You win a fight, you rise, you lose a fight you don't rise or even lose a rank. This gives competing it's edge, if losing didn't matter, then winning and rising in rank doesn't mean a thing.
Challenge Button: Yeah, let's give sore losers a way to get back at those who have fairly won by understanding and using their talents to max out dodge, accuracy or strength. ( sarcastic mode here, again. ) And who decides if those hits or misses are "excessive"?

Captain
Jun 10, 2013
729
anecorbie on Mar 30, 2018 wrote:
If you're a swashbuckler with a dodge over 200 then dodging 5 hits in a row happens. Buccaneers can get in hits on a dodgy swashbuckler by stunning. ( Also Glancing Blow is not dodge-able. ) Stacking charges to reduce dodge helps in getting hits in.
Watch System: Oh yes, let's give those lazy people at KI more things to do with their time! (sarcastic mode here.)
Losing a match should count against rising in ranks, it's the same in every sport. You win a fight, you rise, you lose a fight you don't rise or even lose a rank. This gives competing it's edge, if losing didn't matter, then winning and rising in rank doesn't mean a thing.
Challenge Button: Yeah, let's give sore losers a way to get back at those who have fairly won by understanding and using their talents to max out dodge, accuracy or strength. ( sarcastic mode here, again. ) And who decides if those hits or misses are "excessive"?
It's nice to have the input of a Swashbuckler.

The problem I have with losing counting against you is you could have 40 wins, but if you have 40 losses you still would be a low rank regardless of your hard earned 40 wins. That is the problem. I would like to hear if you have an idea to fix this problem. Even if Kingsisle listen to my idea losing would still set you back 25 minutes of your time. What about in organizations like Girl Scouts where whoever sells the most cookies gets rewarded. As far as I know they don't punish the person who sells the least cookies. That still encourages people to try to sell the most cookies, but doesn't discourage them if they don't.

Under my challenge system it would be up to Ratbeard or someone at Kingsisle to determine if the hits and misses were excessive. The 12 hour cooldown I am proposing will prevent this button from being spammed, and remember if Kingsisle redoes it so only wins count towards ranks if you won a challenge you would simply get a win added to your wins, the other person would not randomly lose a win.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
2131
I'm sorry, I don't even PvP and I realize that your system suggestions sounds like you are unhappy with the fact that losing matches is messing up your plans to rank up quickly. Hits surely may seem excessive if you've had bad luck with the critical rolls or simply weren't as good as the other player. If your player won due to lucky critical hits, you wouldn't have any reason to complain.

You win, you move up, you lose, you drop back down. Simple. You have to win more matches than you lose. PvP isn't for everyone, but the current system is certainly as fair as it needs to be in that regard.


Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
RRRRZZZZ419 on Mar 31, 2018 wrote:
It's nice to have the input of a Swashbuckler.

The problem I have with losing counting against you is you could have 40 wins, but if you have 40 losses you still would be a low rank regardless of your hard earned 40 wins. That is the problem. I would like to hear if you have an idea to fix this problem. Even if Kingsisle listen to my idea losing would still set you back 25 minutes of your time. What about in organizations like Girl Scouts where whoever sells the most cookies gets rewarded. As far as I know they don't punish the person who sells the least cookies. That still encourages people to try to sell the most cookies, but doesn't discourage them if they don't.

Under my challenge system it would be up to Ratbeard or someone at Kingsisle to determine if the hits and misses were excessive. The 12 hour cooldown I am proposing will prevent this button from being spammed, and remember if Kingsisle redoes it so only wins count towards ranks if you won a challenge you would simply get a win added to your wins, the other person would not randomly lose a win.
Whatever does selling cookies have to do with a competitive sport? As to the Girl Scouts, they get awarded by a badge ( I was a Girl Scout and I believe you had to make quota ). Let's take a different example from real life; suppose you're a realtor, let's say the number of houses you sell per year gives you a bonus - now suppose you have a terrible record at selling houses, are you going to get that bonus? Chances are, you won't and you'll possibly get fired.
PVP is a sport, losses are big part of sports. If losses don't affect your Rank, then anyone can climb higher than they should.
It's simple math, get more wins than losses, you climb, have more losses than wins then you don't get a higher rank. And imo, you shouldn't.
Excessive hits or misses are caused by a lack of understanding what causes a hit or miss ( excluding power cards, because those always go through ). The talent attacks are dependent on your stats - how much Dodge, Armor or Accuracy you or a companion has. Have more Dodge than the opponents Accuracy, you'll usually dodge a hit. Have more Armor and that takes off a bit of damage. Have more Accuracy, then you'll usually hit more. ( Of course random luck is also a factor. I've dodged even when extremely reduced in that stat. )
And Ratbeard has a thousand better things to do than monitor a perfectly legal match, and if you lose that perfectly legal match, you don't deserve to "challenge" and hopefully add an undeserved win.

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
RRRRZZZZ419 on Mar 30, 2018 wrote:
This is the first ranked PVP season I have had 2 max level pirates and I wanted to post my thoughts on how Pirate 101's ranked PVP system could be improved.

Before I go any further I will make a note as of right now I only have those 2 pirates(a musketeer and a privateer) so I cannot answer for the other 3 classes.

One thing I find unrealistic is when a Swashbuckler dodges 5 hits in a row. This doesn't happen all the time, and I understand Swashbuckler's have high dodge but dodging 5 hits in a row seems unrealistic. Why is there the Quick Adjust and Second Chance talents when a Swashbuckler can dodge 5 hits in a row. I equally find annoying when a Buccaneer does a Reckless Frenzy, doesn't critical more than once, but gets in 5 or more regular hits. Why does the Dodgy talent exist if a Buccaneer can get 5 regular hits in a row. And finally let me talk about fighting Witchdoctors, I find it sad when I fight a Witchdoctor and they do 3 or more regular hits in a row and fizzle all 3 times, why even have the Mojo Echo talent if you fizzle more often than not. You may notice up to this point I haven't talked about the classes of my max level pirates, in my observations when I face my own class as a musketeer the hits and misses seem equal, it's only when I face another class this seems to change. When a face my own class as a privateer there isn't much attacking at all as we are bombing back and forth.

On another note, I feel the current ranked PVP system values losses more than wins, my musketeer currently has equal wins and losses, 4 each, and is a contender. I feel she should at least be a Brawler under the current system as she has 3 or more wins.

I feel the solution to these problems is Ki introducing a watch system that records all matches, changing the ranked PVP system so only wins count towards ranks, and adding a challenge button. I will go into detail below:

Watch System: If Ki added a watch system that recorded matches Ki could watch matches after they happened this would be good to help combat boosting, cheat engine use, and to make combat better overall.

Only Wins Counting Towards Ranks: I think this would be good as if a person kept losing it would encourage them to keep trying instead of making them feel inferior. This may be why not many people do ranked PVP, thus boosting being easily done. I propose a system where once you get a certain number of wins you get the next rank regardless of how many losses you have, something like: Contender - 1 win, Brawler - 5 wins, Warrior - 10 wins, Gladiator - 15 wins, Veteran - 20 wins, Hero - 25 wins, Paragon - 30 wins, Champion - 40 wins. Under this system people would still be putting in the same number of PVP hours in order to get the Champion rank.

Challenge Button: I think Ki should add a challenge button(with a 12 hour cooldown to avoid spamming). In the event of excessive hits or misses or cheat engine use, Ki could use recordings of the match to add a win to your wins if you earned it.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, 2 of those wins were against my swashbuckler, Nobe Wolf Hawkins, right? Now, both of those wins were due to "excessive hits" (you chaining me dead from full) despite my pirate hitting elusive where he should have been able to dodge at least a couple of hits. I don't want to put words in your mouth if I am misunderstanding you, but are you proposing that KI convert those losses of mine to wins since I earned them and only lost due to excessive hits that weren't in my favor?

That brings up another topic that I think Ratbeard or another developer needs to address/acknowledge. Despite what he's told us, myself and the overwhelming majority of pvp regulars have concluded that criticals and accuracy are not independent stats. A reduced buccaneer pirate with a whales might may not be able to hit a swashbuckler with a normal swing at all, but they will still consistently get critical hits. If what Ratbeard has told us about critical hits and accuracy is true, then realistically they shouldn't be able to hit at all, but there is too much evidence otherwise that suggests this isn't the case. Anywho, that was just a little ramble I've wanted to make for a while and it was semi-relevant to make here (I hope you're reading this, Ratbeard).

Anyways, in regards to the rest of your post, I completely disagree. The only potential "problem" with the ranked pvp system in it's current state (besides boosting) is the amount of points gained/lost from matches when fighting people of different rank. If I'm at paragon (300) and go 5/5 in my next 10 matches, I'll more than likely be at hero because losses tend to impact one's rank more than wins. That said, no you shouldn't be a brawler with a record of 4-4 (assuming you didn't lose while at 0 rank). Even if a person invests a lot of time into ranked pvp, if they aren't winning enough they don't deserve to be a champion. For better or for worse, losses should always matter, even if they aren't always just.

Captain
Jun 10, 2013
729
Wolf SkullRider on Apr 1, 2018 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, 2 of those wins were against my swashbuckler, Nobe Wolf Hawkins, right? Now, both of those wins were due to "excessive hits" (you chaining me dead from full) despite my pirate hitting elusive where he should have been able to dodge at least a couple of hits. I don't want to put words in your mouth if I am misunderstanding you, but are you proposing that KI convert those losses of mine to wins since I earned them and only lost due to excessive hits that weren't in my favor?

That brings up another topic that I think Ratbeard or another developer needs to address/acknowledge. Despite what he's told us, myself and the overwhelming majority of pvp regulars have concluded that criticals and accuracy are not independent stats. A reduced buccaneer pirate with a whales might may not be able to hit a swashbuckler with a normal swing at all, but they will still consistently get critical hits. If what Ratbeard has told us about critical hits and accuracy is true, then realistically they shouldn't be able to hit at all, but there is too much evidence otherwise that suggests this isn't the case. Anywho, that was just a little ramble I've wanted to make for a while and it was semi-relevant to make here (I hope you're reading this, Ratbeard).

Anyways, in regards to the rest of your post, I completely disagree. The only potential "problem" with the ranked pvp system in it's current state (besides boosting) is the amount of points gained/lost from matches when fighting people of different rank. If I'm at paragon (300) and go 5/5 in my next 10 matches, I'll more than likely be at hero because losses tend to impact one's rank more than wins. That said, no you shouldn't be a brawler with a record of 4-4 (assuming you didn't lose while at 0 rank). Even if a person invests a lot of time into ranked pvp, if they aren't winning enough they don't deserve to be a champion. For better or for worse, losses should always matter, even if they aren't always just.
You are correct that 2 of those of those wins were against your Swashbuckler. I actually do think you should have won at least 1 of the matches. I've seen other Swashbuckler's dodge 5 hits in a row and for some reason the game decided you wouldn't dodge. So yes, under my system 1 of your losses against me would most likely be converted to a win.

I didn't make this post to complain about critical hits at all, I just feel the regular hit system is a little messed up. I agree with you in terms of being able to constantly critical and not get in a regular hit at all and that isn't right either, that brings up a whole new problem.

Perhaps losses should count, but they definitely count too much now, having the same amount of wins and losses shouldn't cause your rank to go down, as you have wins to make up for your losses.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
RRRRZZZZ419 on Apr 1, 2018 wrote:
You are correct that 2 of those of those wins were against your Swashbuckler. I actually do think you should have won at least 1 of the matches. I've seen other Swashbuckler's dodge 5 hits in a row and for some reason the game decided you wouldn't dodge. So yes, under my system 1 of your losses against me would most likely be converted to a win.

I didn't make this post to complain about critical hits at all, I just feel the regular hit system is a little messed up. I agree with you in terms of being able to constantly critical and not get in a regular hit at all and that isn't right either, that brings up a whole new problem.

Perhaps losses should count, but they definitely count too much now, having the same amount of wins and losses shouldn't cause your rank to go down, as you have wins to make up for your losses.
You could also say "having losses makes up for your wins".