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Ratbeard: Question about Vengeance & Repel

AuthorMessage
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Hello Ratbeard, I just had a question concerning VS and RB and how they may or may not be playing nice together. This may have been addressed in another thread/post, but I did not come across it in searching. If it has, I apologize for any redundancy on my part.

I was in Test Realm, in the Smuggler's Arena, and I sent one of my companions (Baar I believe) to attack an enemy. The path to reach the enemy happened to send Baar next to another enemy that possessed Repel Boarders. The enemy I was selecting to attack also had Repel Boarders.

So, Baar moved adjacent to the non-targeted enemy and triggered it's RB, which did land. Immediately Baar continued his path towards the targeted enemy. When adjacent to the new enemy, it's RB also kicked in and landed, followed by a Relentless. Then Baar got his turn and landed his strike, a Relentless and a Blade Storm, but no Vengeance Strike was triggered anywhere during the sequence.

Is this a bug with VS or is it perhaps an intended design so that we have to pay a 'penalty', and forfeit our VS, because we chose to bypass the first RB enemy in order to attack a different one. Possibly, kind of like- you should have paid more attention, so no soup for you!

Just curious and if it was a bug, I of course wanted to bring it to your attention. Thanks in advance for any insight and reply.

Ensign
Nov 05, 2011
6
I too have seen this however on my part I personally think this would be a little too over powered as many computers have this epic. With a combination of first strike, relentess, and then to add vengence strike this would be a little over the top. However with everyone using a ranged companion in PvP *cough* Nausica *cough* I don't see this becoming a huge problem, but still a big one.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
ExpertTrainer on Dec 1, 2014 wrote:
I too have seen this however on my part I personally think this would be a little too over powered as many computers have this epic. With a combination of first strike, relentess, and then to add vengence strike this would be a little over the top. However with everyone using a ranged companion in PvP *cough* Nausica *cough* I don't see this becoming a huge problem, but still a big one.
Thanks for the posting. I was actually just wondering if it was indeed a bug for companions equipped with Vengeance Strike, since Vengeance Strike x 3 is supposed to trigger after successful attacks. And Repel Boarders x 3, only states that it decreases the targets Accuracy. It doesn't say anything about it nullifying the bonus sneak attack that Vengeance Strike x 3 is supposed to grant the VS pirate. And likewise I have never seen any documentation stating that VS won't trigger against certain, specific attacks.

So, without regards to it being over powering at all, I just was curious as to whether it was a known bug or an unseen penalty that comes with and from the above scenario playing out the way it did. This is the only instance where I have not seen one of my Vengeance Strike companions, not use there VS when it was otherwise called for.

So Ratbeard, could you kindly offer up as to whether this is a bug or just the way it is supposed to work after all.

And Thank you!

Gunner's Mate
Jan 06, 2011
228
It is a bug. Vengeance Strike is currently broken after a recent patch that was intended to "fix" it and stop multiple First Strikes hitting before a Vengeance can go. This "fix" was implemented by making Vengeance activate at the very end of a units turn, including after moving. So, if you move past an enemy with Repel Boarders or Cheap Shot, you will not retaliate (unless you stop beside the enemy) and it will use up your Vengeance. This is not how it used to be.

Vengeance Strike (and True Grit) needs to be fixed properly because at the moment it is not a worthwhile choice.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
KiwiChickenz on Dec 3, 2014 wrote:
It is a bug. Vengeance Strike is currently broken after a recent patch that was intended to "fix" it and stop multiple First Strikes hitting before a Vengeance can go. This "fix" was implemented by making Vengeance activate at the very end of a units turn, including after moving. So, if you move past an enemy with Repel Boarders or Cheap Shot, you will not retaliate (unless you stop beside the enemy) and it will use up your Vengeance. This is not how it used to be.

Vengeance Strike (and True Grit) needs to be fixed properly because at the moment it is not a worthwhile choice.
Ok thank you very much KiwiChickenz!

I knew that there was the bug with Vengeance Strike and Blade Storm not triggering off of Critical Hit VS's, but I must have missed or forgotten the reports about the whole Repel Boarders/First Strikes bug/issue.

So, that is great to know that my crew members' VS will be used up or forfeited if I move past a RB/FS attacker to get to another target that doesn't place my pirate adjacent to the passed by enemy. Well not great that it happens that way, but great to know that it is a bug or at least is not working as it should in regards to those types of scenarios.

Thanks again!

Developer
Ugh.

I'm going to see if I can squeak a fix into this milestone.

By "fix" I mean, "Implement non-cruddy design."

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Ratbeard on Dec 3, 2014 wrote:
Ugh.

I'm going to see if I can squeak a fix into this milestone.

By "fix" I mean, "Implement non-cruddy design."
If it helps, I'd much rather have the milestone than worry about squeakin'. Plus, no need to add extra work around the holidays since we, or at least I, know that it is not an actual bug and can surely work around it, seeing as it doesn't really interfere with gameplay much-- although it may more-so with PvP'ers.

But I would at least keep a close eye on the designer and make him/her adhere more to KI's superlative protocols and design standards!

Developer
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Dec 3, 2014 wrote:
If it helps, I'd much rather have the milestone than worry about squeakin'. Plus, no need to add extra work around the holidays since we, or at least I, know that it is not an actual bug and can surely work around it, seeing as it doesn't really interfere with gameplay much-- although it may more-so with PvP'ers.

But I would at least keep a close eye on the designer and make him/her adhere more to KI's superlative protocols and design standards!
But I would at least keep a close eye on the designer and make him/her adhere more to KI's superlative protocols and design standards!

It's not really an issue of design time-- that will take just a few minutes. But vetting all the combat logic permutations through QA is non-trivial-- and as this episode has demonstrated, even when the change is not a bug per se, the intended design may make things worse in the fullness of time.

This exercise began by trying to fix the odd chain caused by FS-FS-FS, VS-VS-VS. It might be better to roll back Vengeance Strike to its prior functionality and modify First Strike instead so that you can't stack two FS events on top of each other.

So we'll try that-- and have no fear, I will be keeping an eye on the infamous Designer of Cruddy Talents.

Anybody have a mirror I can borrow?

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Ratbeard on Dec 3, 2014 wrote:
But I would at least keep a close eye on the designer and make him/her adhere more to KI's superlative protocols and design standards!

It's not really an issue of design time-- that will take just a few minutes. But vetting all the combat logic permutations through QA is non-trivial-- and as this episode has demonstrated, even when the change is not a bug per se, the intended design may make things worse in the fullness of time.

This exercise began by trying to fix the odd chain caused by FS-FS-FS, VS-VS-VS. It might be better to roll back Vengeance Strike to its prior functionality and modify First Strike instead so that you can't stack two FS events on top of each other.

So we'll try that-- and have no fear, I will be keeping an eye on the infamous Designer of Cruddy Talents.

Anybody have a mirror I can borrow?
Oops, I forgot to add that winkin' emoticon to portray my wise-guyishnessism! Maybe, perhaps you can borrow Bonnie's mirror when she isn't in battle lettin' loose Critical Strikes.

Actually, I didn't really understand anything you wrote, when it comes to programming I admit I'm not the brightest eel in the pond! (ooh watch how you spell admit, accidently switching a couple letters doesn't look too good!)

All I got out of your post was- "A few minutes of combat makes permutating bugs exercise by trying odd chain fear stacking and designing infamous eye Crud!" Ooh, where's that other emoticon I'm looking for.......ahh, there it is.

Seriously, thank you for taking the time to respond, shed some programming light (enjoyed immensely) on us and briefly explain part of what it takes to be the head Rat in charge! I'm ok with whatever needs to be done for the greater good of the programming. We can and will always adapt and improvise-- program and design away!