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In defense of KI

AuthorMessage
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Amber hawksong on May 8, 2020 wrote:
I will miss your presence and voice in the message boards Anecorbie.

Do you lurk anywhere else?
Sorry, no. I only play KI games.

Admiral
Nov 23, 2011
1364
Wizard101 is a great game, but from when I first started playing it I liked Pirate better. Two reasons, I think: first, KI had made what I considered to be some nice improvements with Pirate over the W101 model (Pet training being a good example, all pirates in a fight receiving the same treasure being another example); second, the combat engine in P101 is more to my taste than that of W101 (I prefer tabletop miniatures games to collectible card games).

I have of course been disappointed by the sparsity of updates to P101 for some time now. I understand that there are real financial issues behind how KI distributes its resources, but I have been paying money for P101 updates that are few and far between and relatively minor and/or cosmetic when they do come. I had been maintaining three paid accounts for P101 (like I said, I really like the game), but after pondering the fact that I just never play anymore, I recently asked that two of those not be renewed. I will probably not renew the third one another time, unless something changes.

If KI does significantly update the game at some point, I will be back in force.

-Indigo

Ensign
Mar 21, 2020
3
I feel that the best way to respond to your points would be to rebuttal them point by point.
  1. To look at it from the POV of KI is necessary and I can almost guarantee you that many of the players who have problems with KI's business style have looked at both sides of the issue. We're not asking for a full attention shift from Wizard101 to Pirate101, what we are asking for is for Pirate101 to be cared about to the same extent as Wizard101. To point out that Wizard101 is the more developed game and continues to be developed because of its bigger player base is a fair point. Looking at the other side of the issue Wizard101's player base is bigger because of the regular updates and content drops that keep them playing and spending money on the game therefor making it the more profitable game to Pirate101. Many players from the Wizard101 community also have played and may continue to play Pirate101 and they have the same gripes with the game as the game's core players. Sore lack of content and updates; even lack of bug fixes. When you stop to think about what an equal amount of developer attention would do for Pirate101 and Wizard101 I do not think that a shift in player base from game to game would happen. Instead I think an equilibrium between the two games would take form. New players will catch wind of this new game that the fans of it are talking about and recommending. Along with some new advertisement material to spread the word even further, faster. As well as Wizard101 players paying for subscriptions to Pirate101 (Perhaps for the 2nd time) to boost the player base even more. Both of these combined would boost the player base of Pirate101 far enough to where both games can be looked at as equal subscription services and warrant the same amount of attention and development as so. Wizard101 would not be left to be untended to like Pirate101 as previously stated, but I could see how equal attention to both games at once could lead to content releases being pushed a bit further back than anticipated for certain bigger projects. But when you look at the neglect Pirate101 players have been going through for years without any significant content, Wizard101 players still come out "On top" as you might say. Trust me when I say as well, for Pirate101 players KI's reputation could not fall very much farther than it already has if change doesn't happen soon.
  2. When it is said that KI has "forgotten" about us, don't take the words for their literal sense. "Forgotten" is being used to take the place of "We as Pirate101 fans feel neglected". We aren't recognized in every KI Live, something Wizard101 players cannot attest to being. We don't get the same value for the same price in which we pay to play a game under the same developer as Wizard101 players get. Taking words at their face value in some cases is akin to blissful ignorance.
  3. It is not fair to say "Well Pirate101 is a more complicated system so we don't have to give it anything more than what we do". It's a different game, so yes it needs different resources to play properly. However upon development of the game in the first place, this is something that you look at. You roadmap all the things you want your product to be in the future and far future. You don't make something and such a level and only foresee what you want for the next 3 or so months. With all the resources that Wizard101 has and how many of those same assets are recycled into Pirate101, there is still a huge discrepancy in different assets for Pirate101. We don't have many of the same things Wizard101 has. Whether it be a mount that could be recycled over, or an outfit, even an NPC model that they could use for a new companion or pet. We don't have those same thing Wizard101 players have. Nautical combat is a system incomparable to anything Wizard101 has. We have access to sail the Skyways of the Spiral, this much is true. However we have had a lot of content cut from what makes the nautical experience a great one. How many worlds does Wizard101 have? Many more than Pirate101 I'm afraid. I can run down the list of worlds Pirate101 has off the top of my head. Skull Island, Monquista, Cooper's Roost, Valencia, Mooshu, Marleybone and Aquila. Researching all the worlds of Wizard101 you guys have Wizard City, Krokotopia, Marleybone, Mooshu, Dragonspyre, Celestia, Grizzleheim, Wysteria, Zafaria, Avalon, Azteca, Aquila, Khrysalis, Polaris, Mirage and Empyria. Could any one person call that list comparison fair? Running down that list we only hold 3 world's unique to our game! Even some of the Wizard101 world's mentioned by name in Pirate101 aren't accessible.

Commodore
Feb 12, 2015
828
Tara Morris on May 11, 2020 wrote:
I feel that the best way to respond to your points would be to rebuttal them point by point.
  1. To look at it from the POV of KI is necessary and I can almost guarantee you that many of the players who have problems with KI's business style have looked at both sides of the issue. We're not asking for a full attention shift from Wizard101 to Pirate101, what we are asking for is for Pirate101 to be cared about to the same extent as Wizard101. To point out that Wizard101 is the more developed game and continues to be developed because of its bigger player base is a fair point. Looking at the other side of the issue Wizard101's player base is bigger because of the regular updates and content drops that keep them playing and spending money on the game therefor making it the more profitable game to Pirate101. Many players from the Wizard101 community also have played and may continue to play Pirate101 and they have the same gripes with the game as the game's core players. Sore lack of content and updates; even lack of bug fixes. When you stop to think about what an equal amount of developer attention would do for Pirate101 and Wizard101 I do not think that a shift in player base from game to game would happen. Instead I think an equilibrium between the two games would take form. New players will catch wind of this new game that the fans of it are talking about and recommending. Along with some new advertisement material to spread the word even further, faster. As well as Wizard101 players paying for subscriptions to Pirate101 (Perhaps for the 2nd time) to boost the player base even more. Both of these combined would boost the player base of Pirate101 far enough to where both games can be looked at as equal subscription services and warrant the same amount of attention and development as so. Wizard101 would not be left to be untended to like Pirate101 as previously stated, but I could see how equal attention to both games at once could lead to content releases being pushed a bit further back than anticipated for certain bigger projects. But when you look at the neglect Pirate101 players have been going through for years without any significant content, Wizard101 players still come out "On top" as you might say. Trust me when I say as well, for Pirate101 players KI's reputation could not fall very much farther than it already has if change doesn't happen soon.
  2. When it is said that KI has "forgotten" about us, don't take the words for their literal sense. "Forgotten" is being used to take the place of "We as Pirate101 fans feel neglected". We aren't recognized in every KI Live, something Wizard101 players cannot attest to being. We don't get the same value for the same price in which we pay to play a game under the same developer as Wizard101 players get. Taking words at their face value in some cases is akin to blissful ignorance.
  3. It is not fair to say "Well Pirate101 is a more complicated system so we don't have to give it anything more than what we do". It's a different game, so yes it needs different resources to play properly. However upon development of the game in the first place, this is something that you look at. You roadmap all the things you want your product to be in the future and far future. You don't make something and such a level and only foresee what you want for the next 3 or so months. With all the resources that Wizard101 has and how many of those same assets are recycled into Pirate101, there is still a huge discrepancy in different assets for Pirate101. We don't have many of the same things Wizard101 has. Whether it be a mount that could be recycled over, or an outfit, even an NPC model that they could use for a new companion or pet. We don't have those same thing Wizard101 players have. Nautical combat is a system incomparable to anything Wizard101 has. We have access to sail the Skyways of the Spiral, this much is true. However we have had a lot of content cut from what makes the nautical experience a great one. How many worlds does Wizard101 have? Many more than Pirate101 I'm afraid. I can run down the list of worlds Pirate101 has off the top of my head. Skull Island, Monquista, Cooper's Roost, Valencia, Mooshu, Marleybone and Aquila. Researching all the worlds of Wizard101 you guys have Wizard City, Krokotopia, Marleybone, Mooshu, Dragonspyre, Celestia, Grizzleheim, Wysteria, Zafaria, Avalon, Azteca, Aquila, Khrysalis, Polaris, Mirage and Empyria. Could any one person call that list comparison fair? Running down that list we only hold 3 world's unique to our game! Even some of the Wizard101 world's mentioned by name in Pirate101 aren't accessible.
This is the most accurate and descriptive display of our crisis and potential solutions yet. If Kingsisle does not listen to this then I will be disappointed.

Gunner's Mate
Aug 10, 2011
296
Tara Morris on May 11, 2020 wrote:
I feel that the best way to respond to your points would be to rebuttal them point by point.
  1. To look at it from the POV of KI is necessary and I can almost guarantee you that many of the players who have problems with KI's business style have looked at both sides of the issue. We're not asking for a full attention shift from Wizard101 to Pirate101, what we are asking for is for Pirate101 to be cared about to the same extent as Wizard101. To point out that Wizard101 is the more developed game and continues to be developed because of its bigger player base is a fair point. Looking at the other side of the issue Wizard101's player base is bigger because of the regular updates and content drops that keep them playing and spending money on the game therefor making it the more profitable game to Pirate101. Many players from the Wizard101 community also have played and may continue to play Pirate101 and they have the same gripes with the game as the game's core players. Sore lack of content and updates; even lack of bug fixes. When you stop to think about what an equal amount of developer attention would do for Pirate101 and Wizard101 I do not think that a shift in player base from game to game would happen. Instead I think an equilibrium between the two games would take form. New players will catch wind of this new game that the fans of it are talking about and recommending. Along with some new advertisement material to spread the word even further, faster. As well as Wizard101 players paying for subscriptions to Pirate101 (Perhaps for the 2nd time) to boost the player base even more. Both of these combined would boost the player base of Pirate101 far enough to where both games can be looked at as equal subscription services and warrant the same amount of attention and development as so. Wizard101 would not be left to be untended to like Pirate101 as previously stated, but I could see how equal attention to both games at once could lead to content releases being pushed a bit further back than anticipated for certain bigger projects. But when you look at the neglect Pirate101 players have been going through for years without any significant content, Wizard101 players still come out "On top" as you might say. Trust me when I say as well, for Pirate101 players KI's reputation could not fall very much farther than it already has if change doesn't happen soon.
  2. When it is said that KI has "forgotten" about us, don't take the words for their literal sense. "Forgotten" is being used to take the place of "We as Pirate101 fans feel neglected". We aren't recognized in every KI Live, something Wizard101 players cannot attest to being. We don't get the same value for the same price in which we pay to play a game under the same developer as Wizard101 players get. Taking words at their face value in some cases is akin to blissful ignorance.
  3. It is not fair to say "Well Pirate101 is a more complicated system so we don't have to give it anything more than what we do". It's a different game, so yes it needs different resources to play properly. However upon development of the game in the first place, this is something that you look at. You roadmap all the things you want your product to be in the future and far future. You don't make something and such a level and only foresee what you want for the next 3 or so months. With all the resources that Wizard101 has and how many of those same assets are recycled into Pirate101, there is still a huge discrepancy in different assets for Pirate101. We don't have many of the same things Wizard101 has. Whether it be a mount that could be recycled over, or an outfit, even an NPC model that they could use for a new companion or pet. We don't have those same thing Wizard101 players have. Nautical combat is a system incomparable to anything Wizard101 has. We have access to sail the Skyways of the Spiral, this much is true. However we have had a lot of content cut from what makes the nautical experience a great one. How many worlds does Wizard101 have? Many more than Pirate101 I'm afraid. I can run down the list of worlds Pirate101 has off the top of my head. Skull Island, Monquista, Cooper's Roost, Valencia, Mooshu, Marleybone and Aquila. Researching all the worlds of Wizard101 you guys have Wizard City, Krokotopia, Marleybone, Mooshu, Dragonspyre, Celestia, Grizzleheim, Wysteria, Zafaria, Avalon, Azteca, Aquila, Khrysalis, Polaris, Mirage and Empyria. Could any one person call that list comparison fair? Running down that list we only hold 3 world's unique to our game! Even some of the Wizard101 world's mentioned by name in Pirate101 aren't accessible.
All of these are true. 3 is the most honest. The classic "P101 has a more complicated system" has been their crutch to not update for years.

Commodore
Feb 12, 2015
828
Maybe KI has some defense when this was first posted. They do not anymore. I know, I supported this post when it first came out. Not anymore. Kingsisle's lack of response is nothing but willful ignorance and negligence.

I am disgusted.

Admiral
Nov 23, 2011
1364
"All of these are true. 3 is the most honest. The classic 'P101 has a more complicated system' has been their crutch to not update for years."

I think KI's point is valid, though, at least in one major area - animation. Look at a Wizaard figth: we stand stagnant, and wave our arms around a bit. Then the animated spell appears. The enemy has an "I'm hit" response, and an "argh, yo got me!" response. The enemy has a casting animation.

Now look at a pirate fight. We run all over the place. We hit people with our weapons and blast them with spells and jump on them when we are down. We have different animations for different types of Crits. The enemy are as mobile as we are and have multiple attack animations as well.

I know almost nothing about computer animation, but given how much more action is going on in a pirate fight compared to a wizard fight, I feel it is a safe bet to guess that adding a new adversary to P101 takes more programmer hours than adding a new adversary to W101.

Which is not to say I don't feel we deserve more attention, because I certainly agree that we do.

-Indigo

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Indigo Ring on May 12, 2020 wrote:
"All of these are true. 3 is the most honest. The classic 'P101 has a more complicated system' has been their crutch to not update for years."

I think KI's point is valid, though, at least in one major area - animation. Look at a Wizaard figth: we stand stagnant, and wave our arms around a bit. Then the animated spell appears. The enemy has an "I'm hit" response, and an "argh, yo got me!" response. The enemy has a casting animation.

Now look at a pirate fight. We run all over the place. We hit people with our weapons and blast them with spells and jump on them when we are down. We have different animations for different types of Crits. The enemy are as mobile as we are and have multiple attack animations as well.

I know almost nothing about computer animation, but given how much more action is going on in a pirate fight compared to a wizard fight, I feel it is a safe bet to guess that adding a new adversary to P101 takes more programmer hours than adding a new adversary to W101.

Which is not to say I don't feel we deserve more attention, because I certainly agree that we do.

-Indigo
Most animations can be re-used. We all know what a critical animation for an attack looks like, we know the animation when we're hit and when we're defeated. KI doesn't have to make up new animations for those.
And some things are surely universal to both games, as they use the same gaming program.
When P101 had it's DEDICATED team we had updates, when the teams were merged we ceased getting them as often and now we haven't a glimmer of anything being done for us.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Indigo Ring on May 12, 2020 wrote:
"All of these are true. 3 is the most honest. The classic 'P101 has a more complicated system' has been their crutch to not update for years."

I think KI's point is valid, though, at least in one major area - animation. Look at a Wizaard figth: we stand stagnant, and wave our arms around a bit. Then the animated spell appears. The enemy has an "I'm hit" response, and an "argh, yo got me!" response. The enemy has a casting animation.

Now look at a pirate fight. We run all over the place. We hit people with our weapons and blast them with spells and jump on them when we are down. We have different animations for different types of Crits. The enemy are as mobile as we are and have multiple attack animations as well.

I know almost nothing about computer animation, but given how much more action is going on in a pirate fight compared to a wizard fight, I feel it is a safe bet to guess that adding a new adversary to P101 takes more programmer hours than adding a new adversary to W101.

Which is not to say I don't feel we deserve more attention, because I certainly agree that we do.

-Indigo
( and I forgot to add ).
That W101 actually needs more animation than P101 because the spells require a depiction of the type of spell. It could be anything from a simple Blood Bat attack or as complicated as an Ice Giant or Monster Mash.

Petty Officer
Nov 23, 2019
92
Hmm, you may have a point. But, I'm asking you one last thing: you don't have to support ki, but plz just play pirate101: Forget about the creators and their issues, and just play. You don't have to buy crowns or member, but at least help out all the new pirates. You owe it to the new players, because if this wasn't happening they would probably be in a better posistion.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Amazingshot123 on May 15, 2020 wrote:
Hmm, you may have a point. But, I'm asking you one last thing: you don't have to support ki, but plz just play pirate101: Forget about the creators and their issues, and just play. You don't have to buy crowns or member, but at least help out all the new pirates. You owe it to the new players, because if this wasn't happening they would probably be in a better posistion.
I do that and I'll probably continue doing that until this game is updated or sinks forever. ( But they're not getting any of my money until then. )

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Amazingshot123 on May 15, 2020 wrote:
Hmm, you may have a point. But, I'm asking you one last thing: you don't have to support ki, but plz just play pirate101: Forget about the creators and their issues, and just play. You don't have to buy crowns or member, but at least help out all the new pirates. You owe it to the new players, because if this wasn't happening they would probably be in a better posistion.
Fortunately, I'm in the position to do that. I'm a crowns player and those crowns went to buying the premium zones. Now, 7+ years onward, I see that was a good idea, I can access every part of this game to help players. Those who bought membership ( and are now dropping their subs ) will be stuck in the FtP zones in Skull Island.
Sad, but true.
*SHIP!*

Ensign
Nov 26, 2011
28
anecorbie on May 22, 2020 wrote:
Fortunately, I'm in the position to do that. I'm a crowns player and those crowns went to buying the premium zones. Now, 7+ years onward, I see that was a good idea, I can access every part of this game to help players. Those who bought membership ( and are now dropping their subs ) will be stuck in the FtP zones in Skull Island.
Sad, but true.
*SHIP!*
This is probably a really unpopular opinion with the suits, but I honestly think that those of us who have been subscribed this long should just be given an equivalent amount of crowns for the money we've paid and received no content for.

By this point, I've definitely paid for huge swaths of the game's zones, if not all of it.

I'd love to be able to stick around and help people after I finally throw my hands up and cancel my sub

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Orebit on May 22, 2020 wrote:
This is probably a really unpopular opinion with the suits, but I honestly think that those of us who have been subscribed this long should just be given an equivalent amount of crowns for the money we've paid and received no content for.

By this point, I've definitely paid for huge swaths of the game's zones, if not all of it.

I'd love to be able to stick around and help people after I finally throw my hands up and cancel my sub
I would support some compensation for those who have had memberships going back to the last 3 years.